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Question:
I have been raised Catholic and have decided to make some changes for me and my family. I have been attending an ELCA Church for a while, but I'm curious to know how the Missourri Synod is different from the ELCA. I have attended two of your services already and cannot tell a difference in just the service. Please inform me so that I may be closer to making a very important decision.
Answer:
You've asked a very good question. It's important to know the differences between churches, because they don't all teach the same. You are to be commended for even being concerned about it.
I'd be willing to sit down and talk about this with you, if you'd like, because it's not easy (or even fair) to summarize the differences in a paragraph or two, but let me try.
The main differences have to do with the main objective of the synods.
The main agenda item for the ELCA is UNITY... and in some cases, unity at all costs, even if it means watering down doctrine to achieve unity.
The main agenda item for the LCMS is FAITHFULNESS TO SCRIPTURE... at all costs, even if it means disunity in the chuch.
Although I believe God wants unity in the church, I also think that He wants us to remain faithful to Scripture... and since I think that's most important, I am, therefore, LCMS.
You are correct that you won't hear much about the differences on Sunday morning. The worship is still very much the same. And I don't speak against other church bodies. I simply explain Scripture and assume that the Holy Spirit will direct people to the "church of choice."
As I said, it's not fair to summarize some very complex issues like I just did, but basically that's the main difference. I've also got a brochure that our synod put together that may be helpful for you. When you're in church next, ask me and I'll share it with you... of if you'd like I can send it to you.
Thanks for writing. If this isn't clear or you'd like more info, just write. If we could meet some time that would be great too.
Pastor Sattler
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Question:
Some of my friends who are Catholics are always trying to convince me that purgatory exists.
I know it doesn't, but it is something I just always knew and didn't know why. I told her it never says in the Bible anything about purgatory. She knows there's no direct mention of it in the Bible, but she says they're verses that "point to it" (she also said something about there's alot of other things that we {meaning her and me} believe that aren't in the Bible, which I didn't believe either).
She says David (among others) prayed for the dead.
She asked why he would pray for the dead when he knew they either went to heaven or hell and it was decided before their death.
She argued that he must have known there was a reason to pray for them, and that reason was that David didn't know where his friends or whoever he was praying for were going.
She said this meant that there was a place in between heaven and hell.
I didn't know what to say to that. I haven't ever heard of David praying for the dead.
So I was just wondering how we know what we know and why the Catholics think that purgatory exists.
Answer:
Good question... one that causes lots of discussion among Christians.
Here's the easy answer... we don't need purgatory (where you get your sins "purged") because all our sins have already been purged by Jesus on the cross:
I Jn 1:7 - The blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin
Heb 7:27 - He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself
Heb 10:10 - We have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all
Rom 6:10 - The death he died, he died to sin once for all
1 Pet 3:18 - For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
Roman Catholics believe that Jesus died for the "big" sins, but you have to do something to pay for the "little" ones. Those sins aren't bad enough to send you to hell, but you can't get into heaven with them, so you have to go get "purged." As for David praying for the dead? I'm not aware of any such passage. But even if he did, David did all kinds of stupid stuff (Bathsheba!) that we don't necessarily want to do. Our model is Jesus and he never prayed for the dead... he just promised heaven:
Luke 23:43 - Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."
Another point: when does purgatory begin? Has it already started... people are there now getting purged? or does it begin on the Last Day, so that those in purgatory have to wait to get into heaven? The Judgement that the Bible talks about takes place on the Last Day, not when you die. But to go to purgatory, there has to be a judgement when you die. The Bible teaches that Judgement and Heaven all begin on the Last Day... with no waiting around for people to get out of purgatory.
In short, purgatory raises all kinds of problems. And it doesn't answer any. And since the Bible doesn't mention it, and since there isn't a need for it (since Jesus died for ALL sins), purgatory is unnecessary.
Does that make sense?
Pastor S.
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Question:
The bible says (I think it is in 2 Corinthians 6:14? or so) that you should not be unevenly yoked. I know that means date only Christians, but how far does that go? Is it Catholics and Protestants? Just Protestants? Only Lutherans? Just Missouri Synod Lutherans (I don't think it goes that far)? In the Bible it only says Christians, but that was a different context. They only had Christians and Non-Christians. Should we take it differently today now that we have so many different kinds of Christians?
Answer:
Did you find a book full of "good questions" somewhere? What you ask is really important. And especially important as you get into the dating time of your life.
Literally the passage is talking about being married to a non-Christian, which was real common back them. But I think we can apply the principle to any "non-equal" situation. Marriage has enough stress built in the way it is, without purposefully adding more stressful settings... such as dissimilar faiths.
Now, how dissimilar is going to be stressful? That's up to you. We have members married to Roman Catholics and other non-Lutherans who make it work real well. Others, however, struggle with "competing beliefs," especially when it comes to raising the children. Some couples get married where one of the two assumes that the other one is going to convert... and sometimes that is the case. But not usually.
So, the answer is... any non-equal situation is going to add stress to a marriage. What you have to decide is, is this person worth a life-time of additional stress when it comes to the most important area of life? Would I be willing to compromise anything to achieve some kind of "middle ground"?
Is that helpful? It's a very important issue to consider when chosing a spouse, but so many just ignore it or assume it's not that big a deal. Thanks for asking.
Pastor Sattler
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Question:
A group of us were discussing the role of the Holy Spirit during our biweekly Bible study, and a question came up regarding baptism in the context of Titus 3:5.
I read the passage to mean that through baptism ("the cleansing water of rebirth"), and not by righteous acts, we are saved. I also suggested that the Holy Spirit is introduced to the child through baptism.
My colleague inquired, "Absent baptism, can a person achieve salvation?" The six of us looked at each other in silence, reminiscent of the IBM eSolutions commercial.
The discussion continued when it was suggested that the Bible speaks of repentance and faith as the only prerequisites for salvation. Although Christ commanded all to be baptized, it was thought that this was an act of obedience, or perhaps a righteous act to which the scripture referred, or perhaps an act of faith by the parents. My response, rightly or wrongly from the Lutheran tradition, was that a person cannot have faith but for the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit can only be introduced to an individual through baptism. Thus, absent baptism, there can be no salvation. My colleague asked whether the scriptures addressed this point, and whether the Holy Spirit might be received through other means. I punted, and said I'd have to ask my Pastor. Thus this email.
I am probably the least well read member of this study group, and probably more accepting of theological differences than the average Missouri Synod Lutheran. Nevertheless, I would be interested in your thoughts on this point, in whether the Bible specifically addresses the question as to how a person receives the Holy Spirit (whether limited to baptism or otherwise), and/or how Lutherans address this issue.
I don't mean to impose, but perhaps you could offer a few passages that might shine light on this question. I will also look through my Concordance to see if I find any insights. Thanks.
Answer:
Ah.... the debate of the ages! Probably the one doctrine in the church that divides Christianity more than any other. Beneath the debate about baptism is an even more basic issue having to do with how the Holy Spirit works. Does He use baptism to create faith? Or is He limited only to using the Word? If He is limited, then baptism becomes only "an outward sign of an inward change"... or what is referred to as "believers baptism"... you have to be a believer to be baptized.
We believe, of course, that God can and does work through the Word and the Sacraments. We see them as Gospel (God's action) while many see them as Law (our action).
The issue becomes especially heated when discussing infant baptism. Since the assumption by many is that baptism is a response to faith, and since babies can't make a decision for Jesus, they must not be baptized.
But that assumes a couple things:
- That babies can't have faith
- That babies aren't sinful and in need of what baptism offers: forgiveness.
Scripture clearly teaches that children DO need forgiveness because they are sinful like the rest of us (Ps 51:5) and God DOES hold them accountable for their sin (they die - Rom 6:23)
So, the question is, if babies need forgiveness (otherwise there is a time in your life when you don't need Jesus), then how do they get that forgiveness? We, of course, teach that the only way you get forgiveness is through faith. That's why 1 Peter 3:21 says that baptism saves you... because that is how you get faith. Baptism isn't what saves. Faith is. But Baptism is how you get faith.
Acts 2:38-39 says,
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-- for all whom the Lord our God will call."
Since faith is a gift from God (Eph. 2:8-9) and not something we do with our brains (decision), then God can give faith to a child the same way He gives it to an adult (1 Cor. 12:3). Faith is more a relationship that God establishes with us, than a decision we make with our brain.
The Titus passage you were discussing is a good example of the Bible's view on baptism... God washes us and saves us through that washing.
The question is usually raised then (as it was): "Absent baptism, can a person achieve salvation?" And the answer is "yes." The thief on the cross next to Jesus went to heaven without baptism. But he is the only person in the New Testament who did. It was an unusual case where faith was present, but no time to baptize. The Bible teaches that baptism will follow faith (in the case of an adult hearing the Word - Rom 10:17) or that baptism initiates faith (in the case of infants - Acts 2:39).
As Jesus told the disciples in Matthew 28:19-20:
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Disciples are made through baptizing and by teaching. Baptism initiates faith and establishes the relationship with God, but the teaching maintains the faith... you must have both.
I've got gobs of books on this topic if you'd like to read more... or if you don't follow what I've written. I have placed a pamphlet in your mailbox, produced by the LCMS, about baptism that I think explains this better than I have. Let me know if I can help explain this better.
It's cool you're in a Bible study like this. It's good to challenge ourselves to re-examine why we believe what we do.
In Him, JWS
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